Parts of this post will be pedantic.

Towards the end of your fist comment you mentioned “It is not solely due to supposed religious issues. Not for the majority at least.“ ; I made no such assertions, thus asked you not to put words in to my mouth; perhaps I could have used more friendly wording.

Moving onwards, I didn’t intend to take a “pop” at anyone brother. Overtly “spiritual” muslims have their problems (depending of course on how you construe spirituality, which is another argument in itself), my comment didn’t negate this; this isn’t a sectarian competition.

With regard to your comment: “Please do not mix up the islamists with the literalists”, and your reference to “normal literalists”;

The fact of the matter is that those that argue voting is haram are usually of the literalist variety (be they of the “Ultra-Islamist”-literalist variety). With all due respect, just to clarify; in usual discourse, the term literalist is used pretty loosely; it usually denotes someone who is blinkered, incapable of understanding metaphors, lacks objectivity in their interpretation of text, and cannot contextualise, amongst other things. I didn’t mean to use it in a definitive manner (I don’t believe there is one). Furthermore, if you’re not a literalist, this doesn’t mean you’re not able to appreciate when the literal meaning of a text is more suitable: rather, you perhaps have the best of both worlds. Also, I mentioned they were a “type” of literalist, (I didn’t imply that every literalist would be of the opinion that voting is haram, nor did I implicate “normal literalists”, whatever one of those is). I haven’t thus mixed any quasi category with the other.

You would be hard pressed to find a similar voting-is-shirk argument coming from a “spiritualist” (I assume one of those would be a liberal Sufi right?). Again, before you think I’m biased against anyone/ enjoy taking pops, I can assure you this isn’t the case. I have my reservations about certain “spiritualists” too, it’s just, these reservations aren’t so relevant to my specific point.

There is a reason why hundreds of Fatwa’s and counter Fatwa’s have been issued in recent times on the topic of voting; with there being such a raging debate, and with factors I highlighted earlier, I feel it is an issue we cannot afford to brush aside as de minimis.

You keep bringing up issues surrounding apathy towards politics. Apathy and sheer laziness are MAJOR problems; they are of more significance than the topic I have attempted to address, I agree with you. If you were to make a comment highlighting frightening demographics/ apolitical Muslims, I wouldn’t at all put up a counter argument. Another huge issue we face I believe is that of defeatism, which was addressed brilliantly in the above article. However, all this doesn’t have much to do with the reasoning in my post: I was discussing a more distinct issue.

Ultimately, the way I understand things, you believe the whole voting-is-haram mentality isn’t very prevalent in our community, or at least not prevalent enough for me to kick up a fuss about it on this website; I feel we should at this point agree to disagree.

W/s

I only quoted what you said. Please do not be offended by your own words.

One can argue that the issue of voting is more of a concern for those of a particular ultra-islamist leaning, than the normal literalists. The ultra-islamists are a fringe minority. Please do not mix up the islamists with the literalists. Many “literalists” (as you put it) are actually apolitical for the sake of it, more so than shouting out that “voting is haram”. In fact, while we are using labels, let’s also have a pop at the “spiritualists”, many of them are also not bothered. And that is my point. Many don’t vote as they are not engaged with the process, not due to dumbfounded myths or mistaken beliefs.

“I feel this problem largely owes to a lack of education; the areas I am referring to are amongst the poorest and most run down areas in the UK”:

You are correct on this point. Education is needed to encourage non-voting Muslims to vote. Let’s leave it at that.

I hope I haven’t offended you in any way Akhi.

Nowhere in my comment did I suggest that lack of Muslim voting is “solely due to supposed religious issues”; you’re putting words in to my mouth.

What I said was that a belief in voting being haram was amongst the biggest problems, not that it was the biggest. Just to clarify, even if this number was 5-10%, I would regard it a big problem.

You seem either to be in denial, or simply to not have had any experience with the type of literalists I am talking about (in which case I understand where you’re coming from). I have worked with youth in areas around Manchester, Leeds, Bradford etc. The amount of time’s I’ve had rows with members of the community believing voting to be haram is staggering. The reasoning is usually something along the lines of: “Accepting democracy means you’re overlooking the fact that only God makes the rules; you’re thus giving men the rights of God, therefore your actions constitute shirk.”

Such thinking is part of the reason why in several majority Muslim areas in the North (i.e. regions around Oldham), there are a large number of BNP councilors.

I feel this problem largely owes to a lack of education; the areas I am referring to are amongst the poorest and most run down areas in the UK.

In line with this, I have found this problem to be far less apparent in the areas surrounding London, most probably owing to a larger concentration of Muslims from a more diverse background, improved living and schooling conditions, and easy access to a plethora of Muslim scholars.

I hope I haven’t offended you in any way Akhi. W/s

I would beg to differ. Many are just not engaged or interested with the process, for whatever reason. That’s what the underlying problem is. It is not solely due to supposed religious issues. Not for the majority at least.

It appears that the MCB takes the same view as me, since it publishes questions for Muslims to raise with candidates before deciding who to vote for. See press release issued on 7 April 2005 at http://www.mcb.org.uk/media/presstext.php?ann_id=137

Accordingly, as well as encouraging Muslims to vote, the MCB should be actively encouraging them to join the mainstream political parties.

I think one of the biggest problems here Mr Amin, is that much of the Muslim community feels that voting is haram; they thus completely lock themselves off from politics. There are whole communities, especially in the North of England who regularly refuse to go anywhere near the ballot box, often claiming such political involvement to be “Shirk”.

The bigoted simpletons who spread such moronic attitudes and those that agree need to be challenged, especially by those in the community who exercise some power: Mosque Imams etc.

Although I do see a slow improvement in our sorry state of affairs, I don’t see radical change occurring any time soon; this is partly owing to the number of brain dead Imams our community has imported from (largely) the subcontinent.